WalterLuigi

Apr 19, 2024 20:28

Jesus man. I didn't realize you grew up near there. I like to hope these will one day little more than a section in a history book. However, I sincerely doubt it. With the first recorded one happening in 1764, it seems that the intensity and frequency has done little more than escalate for the past 260 years.

Thrones

Apr 19, 2024 22:03

Not at the same level. But 30 miles from where I grew up was the Dunblane massacre in Scotland. I must of been about 9 or 10 at the time but it had profound effect on me as a kid seeing the whole thing play out on the news and the whole nation. It felt closer to home that Hamilton was known in my home town and ran gun clubs near where my school was.

lokiinlove

Apr 19, 2024 22:59

The difference being that after Dunblane they cracked down on gun ownership over here, I can't see that happening in America when you can go into Walmart and buy guns and ammo

Deleted User

Apr 19, 2024 23:07

Was a freshman in highschool when that happened. Had a big fat goth friend that used to wear a big long trench coat too.

Lived not far from Sandy Hook. People have a distorted sense of reality for whatever reason.

lokiinlove

Apr 20, 2024 11:52

It's safer over here, literally the talk of the village is people having bee poo on their cars in summer, that is the worst they have to worry about

Meanwhile women feel safe to walk the streets at night, and someone's shed getting broken into makes the local news

Happy to be in a sleepy village in Blighty, where shootings feel like something that just happens to other people

Grumman

Apr 20, 2024 20:35

Thrones, it definitely hits much harder when it’s literally close to home. At least in my personal experience, my worldview about what was possible to happen in a fairly innocuous suburban setting was completely shattered. I had never heard about Dunblane so I looked it up. What a horrific tragedy, all those young children killed. Our Sandy Hook massacre here is reminiscent of that incident except that after Dunblane, measures were enacted to prevent people from getting the type of weapon that was used. Having 16 or 17 young children murdered in a school was enough to move your people to action. Here, rhetoric circulated, debates raged, thoughts and prayers were offered, and nothing of substance happened.

Grumman

Apr 20, 2024 20:56

I lived less than a mile from Columbine. It was actually the closest high school to my house, but weirdly, I was designated to go to Dakota Ridge HS almost 4 miles away. I think it’s because my elementary school fed into Summit Ridge Middle School which then fed into DRHS. On the day, our school was locked down and rumors ran wild that there were threats to other schools (which actually happened for the rest of my time in high school, we were hypersensitive to anything that was even remotely threatening). We watched everything unfold all day on tv, as this was the era when each classroom was beginning to have its own television hanging from a bracket in the ceiling. It was very surreal and at the time it was impossible to know much about what was going on. Kids who had escaped the building were calling into the news stations to talk about what they saw live on air while the helicopters circled overhead. Probably the most dramatic event was when a wounded and bleeding student (Patrick Ireland, I think was his name) tumbled out of the second floor window from the library onto a police van below. When we were finally let go for the day, the choppers were circling directly over my neighborhood. Then the national media descended on Littleton and all the details and speculation was on a 24/7 loop. I think it was the first time I can remember the news channels using that text crawl thing at the bottom of the screen to deliver as much information as possible at once. In fact there might have been two crawls, one moving faster than the other. It was just so overwhelming, mind-numbing. Then some weeks later, my high school was used as the place where the surviving CHS students had a rally where President Bill Clinton delivered a speech. National media set up for the event in our library and the Secret Service patrolled our hallways prior to the President getting there (we were not allowed to be in the building, only CHS students and their families).

There was so much fallout in our community over this. A lot of finger pointing and blame, a lot of self searching for answers. Was it Marilyn Manson and KMFDM and Rammstein’s fault? Was it the video game Doom? Was it the film Natural Born Killers? Bullying? Goth culture? Everyone blamed something, although no one seemed to care much about the mental health of the killers, at least not right away. And of course there were calls for gun reform, spearheaded by Daniel Mauser’s father and the faux-documentarian Michael Moore with Bowling For Columbine. I’m pretty sure nothing really happened with that.

Anyway as you can see, I’m still grappling with it to this day. It’s still so hard to believe it happened here.

Deleted User

Apr 20, 2024 21:38

When I was in middle school someone used to call the school every day from a pay phone and say there was a bomb in the school. Turned out to be a Puerto Rican kid in one of my classes. We stood outside every day while the bomb squad came through.

Flyxglitter

Apr 21, 2024 00:48

Loki Love im assuming you are referring to The Armalite riffle -15 AkA the AR-15 which is a automatic but not an assault weapon. People used it for small game( hunting) which is why you could buy it in the sport section of Walmart before 2015 when they stopped selling them because of ignorant people like yourself... Anyway the riffle came out in the 1960s after the same company made guns for the military which are assault weapons. And not sold to the public.

The difference is when you shoot the AR- 15 even if you hold on the trigger it only shoots once. The MR or military assault weapon you can set it on multiple shots while holding onto the trigger.... Assault weapons have been banned since 1934 in the USA. 🤷🤷🤷 The AR-15 isn't even the most common weapon used in mass shootings....

My heart goes out to the victims of mass shootings especially school shootings it's tragic and absolutely heartbreaking....

But I feel like when people go for Guns it's them grasping at straws because criminals don't obey the laws. It will only affect responsible citizens.

Darkhorse1215

Apr 21, 2024 00:53

The mental health crisis is the biggest factor in nasty events like that. Society is profoundly sick, and the resources and help for mental health are pretty abysmal. I think there's a minimum of stuff that needs to be done in terms of ensuring gun safety and keeping the wrong people from getting a hold of guns, but I don't agree to limitations to the functionality of semi-automatic weapons such as magazine capacity, etc.

Flyxglitter

Apr 21, 2024 04:06

Darkhorse, What would you suggest in doing to prevent criminals from stealing and selling guns?

𝕞𝓪𝓵𝕜𝓲ẸᵃѶ€ⓛŁᶤⒶ𝓷

Apr 21, 2024 04:22

I hope i don't sound an idiot in general "lol at that" but to me one of those strange things is the second amendment. What if that was never a thing? but in general its damned sad these things happen. No one deserves that s**t, i found the awful was the anti goth sentiment after. MANSON is to blame! THOSE DAMNED GOTH KIDS! they wore tench coats... blegh.

Now we have our bondi version going on, and other things. Yeah easy to say "mental health" when so many who get it, go straight back off it after. Some people don't want help... or think they don't need it.

Flyxglitter

Apr 21, 2024 10:31

I would imagine it would eventually bring unlawful and arbitrary killings and torture followed arbitrary detention by government.

Have a look at what is happening to places like Colombia who once had a similar law to the second amendment.. The United States has so much freedom people take for granted. And it makes my head spin...

Grumman

Apr 21, 2024 14:03

1) The semantics surrounding military grade weaponry are very annoying to me. These are talking points, not genuinely useful arguments. The same people who object to the term “assault rifle” now are the ones who used to think it was cool in the 80’s and early 90’s before they started being used in so many mass killings and gaining a social stigma. Very tired of this part of the discussion because it seems purposefully designed to distract us from meaningful progress.

2) Yes, mental health is a huge issue. No one, least of all conservatives, seems willing to invest the funding in it that would make any measurable impact. Saying it’s a mental health matter more than a gun issue is a way to pay lip service to mental health as a cause while deflecting the discussion away from guns. The simple fact is that people can appear to be stable and then become psychologically distressed by a series of devastating events in their life. They have ready access to weapons that can cause a lot of harm in a very short period of time. This is a deadly combination that doesn’t have to exist.

3) The idea that an AR-15 will ensure your freedom from government oppression or tyranny is an illusion. The government possesses a truly awesome arsenal of tools to destroy you if they want to. As I recall, people in Afghanistan had fully automatic AK-47s and the like. It did not prevent them from being killed with impunity by a gunner on an Apache helicopter using thermal sights to find them in the bushes.

4) How to prevent criminals from getting guns? Make it much harder and make the penalties for buying and selling them to disqualified people much more severe. Laws work if they’re written strictly enough and enforced with an iron will. This country does not have the requisite priorities to make that happen, however.

WalterLuigi

Apr 22, 2024 15:00

@Lokiinlove: Walmart actually cracked down on that a good bit. They no longer sell handguns or handgun ammo and no longer carry ammo for most rifles. They also no longer sell most rifles. So as far as gun sales go, walmart isn't really a player anymore which pissed off a great many people.

WalterLuigi

Apr 22, 2024 15:08

@Gru: Agreed entirely. An AR and even a fully auto-AK isn't stopping tanks, drones, spy tools, hell nuclear weapons, etc. Maybe back when the constitution was written, but war (war never changes) has changed a LOT in that time and a well equipped militia can't really hope to stand up to it now sadly.

An AR-15 is a solid, modular hunting rifle though. Get it chambered in .308 and it's about perfect imo.

lokiinlove

Apr 23, 2024 18:25

I feel lucky to live in a place that the locals greatest fear is getting bee poo on their cars in the summer, where women can go jogging at night and feel safe, and a major local news story if someone's shed gets broken into

Deleted User

Apr 23, 2024 20:09

You can go to your local gas station and buy bullets right off the counter. Any kid crab them.

Flyxglitter

Apr 24, 2024 03:25

My point about AR-15 is that AR doesn't stand for Assault weapon.. and that knowing guns and how they work are important. People rave about them yet mass shootings usually have hand guns. Fewer ARs have been used in shootings.

I was also answering malkies question about the second amendment. 🤷

Darkhorse1215

Apr 24, 2024 09:12

A high-capacity semi-automatic rifle won't protect well against government tyranny outright, like in a stand and fight way, but it might be enough to get someone to safety in an event a civil war or something breaks out. Keep your head down, and shoot any radicals on either side who try to prevent your escape kind of thing. Think of it more launching a lifeboat then trying to save a sinking ship in a government tyranny/civil war type situation. Play your cards right, and it might be enough to procure escape for yourself and people you care about.

Darkhorse1215

Apr 24, 2024 09:17

It's actually because I'm an idealist that I'm not willing to die for any "cause" that isn't really a cause, and why I have that mentality of just protect me and mine and GTFO. Let the c**ts fight it out, but kill anyone who puts you and yours in the crossfire.

Grumman

Apr 24, 2024 16:15

I think the public’s perception of how useful an AR-15 would be in any given situation is based on dystopian movies and tv shows. The likelihood that any of the scenarios typically portrayed actually plays out is very small. I think everyone possessing these kinds of weapons in a free-for-all world would probably exacerbate all the problems and contribute to them spiraling even further out of control. Just my two cents.

Darkhorse1215

Apr 25, 2024 07:52

Well, yes. The majority of people are assholes. The majority of the minority of people aren't assholes, and are militantly willing to defend themselves against the assholes. Therein lies your problem in terms of gun control. Both good and bad people have a stake in procuring weapons for their agendas.

Darkhorse1215

Apr 25, 2024 07:55

So...if s**t breaks down to something approaching anarchy...should good people be disarmed and at the mercy of bad people to promote some stupid collectivist ideology? The problems are already going to be exacerbated. Why put good people at the mercy of psychos?

Darkhorse1215

Apr 25, 2024 07:58

Seconds count, the police will be there in minutes to tens of minutes and just as likely shoot you. Rule of law goes away, and the most powerful people are the most dangerous. Compliance can cost you and those you love much more than rebellion. That's the ugly truth. Being a dependent weakling who relies on authority is not good in this world. It is almost a guarantee of being "eaten". The system will betray you. It will consume you. They are as bad as the low level criminals, yet much more successful.

Grumman

Apr 25, 2024 15:42

I think my point is that everything breaking down to that extent is pretty far-fetched, but people are preparing for it like it’s a virtual certainty.