Grumman

May 18, 2024 07:36

No. It’s not appropriate to support an avowedly genocidal terrorist organization that intentionally targets noncombatants, takes women and children hostage, uses its own civilian population as human shields, and rapes, tortures, murders, and dismembers noncombatants while the population that voted them into power cheers with jubilation and in many instances actively participates in these atrocities.

Ranger Pariah

May 18, 2024 12:24

^^^^He's right you know.

Grumman

May 18, 2024 15:16

The student protests in support of “Palestine” are so infuriating to me. Once again, we have out-of-touch, clueless, and delusional campus liberals protesting in support of a cause that is totally morally bankrupt. And they began doing this prior to Israel dropping a single bomb in response to the October 7 invasion of their country. This is so many bad things - rank antisemitism and a misguided support for a jihadist and again GENOCIDAL regime based on the completely absurd postmodernist framing when the Jewish “colonizers” are the oppressors and the poor beleaguered “freedom fighters” of Hamas are the oppressed. It is 1000% a continuing symptom of woke ideological backwardness and a ludicrous inversion of American values where the people most likely to have multiple members of the LGBTQAI+ community in their friend group are enthusiastically supporting a regime that would not blink before throwing those same friends of theirs off buildings to their deaths.

Wokeness is brain cancer.

Thrones

May 18, 2024 18:07

I dont know what it means by "let gaza live". But is it support of the people loving there and what they are putting up with rather than Hamas?

Thrones

May 18, 2024 18:07

*iving

Thrones

May 18, 2024 18:08

*living

Double typo

FwiFfOooO o

May 18, 2024 18:26

crispy palestinians yim yum

Mr Beelzeebubbles

May 21, 2024 19:59

Politics. On a uni campus. Wow, how unheard of. Yawn.

Yes, it's mildly inappropriate. But I'm sure you'll get over it, unlike the kids buried in the rubble of Gaza city.

PlagueFlowers

May 22, 2024 07:18

The first amendment is the first amendment. It's appropriate anytime. Whether you like it or not. It's America. College campuses are generally funded by the tax payers. (Unless it's a private school). Therefore, protesting definitely comes with the territory.

Also, there's a difference between being in support of Gaza and the actual terrorist group Hamas. Two totally different things.
Whether they actually know that or not, considering their 'educated idiots' is beyond me. But, still. I wish these people would start protesting over the fact that our money even gets wasted over there to begin with. Even on Isreal. Considering Isreal is extremely Nazi like to begin with. No matter what side you choose. They're all scum. Regardless. I wish they'd just use their time and energy protesting to preserve our tax money. Whatever side you're on is completely irrelevant. Let them handle it themselves. We should be focused on building our own country. Our politicians don't care though.

Scuffed in Stourbridge

May 22, 2024 07:49

Irrespective of one's support or lack thereof for any political cause, I think trying to co-opt a graduation ceremony is tone-deaf, tasteless, and cheapens what should be a shared celebration and rite of passage.
A person waving a placard at a ceremony for sure isn't "in the moment" or engaging with the event; shun them as needed.

Cherrywaves89

May 22, 2024 08:26

Not acceptable at all I would felt entirely the same !

Crowcifiction

May 22, 2024 11:46

A lot of protests usually have no end goal. Perhaps spreading awareness, but for well known current events it's not so necessary. It's not like anyone they're speaking out to really has the means to make a change.

Grumman

May 22, 2024 13:33

There has been a protest on the campus of my alma mater, such as it is, here in Denver. The protesters are demanding things like that the university divests itself from Israel (the university has no investment in Israel) and that the university must end its study abroad programs in Israel (it has no study abroad programs in Israel). It’s a copy-paste movement, much like Black Lives Matter, another misguided bunch of completely ignorant nonsense. If the past several years have taught us anything, it’s that the younger generations are desperate for a purpose in life beyond simply getting a decent education, finding fulfilling work, and living their lives in peace and freedom.

Grumman

May 22, 2024 16:49

I’d also like to hear this argument about how Israel is “extremely Nazi-like.”

Thrones

May 22, 2024 17:20

If the protest is about people dying needlessly in Gaza then its quite a noble cause tbh. And if young people want to mobilise and campaign for noble causes I am all for it.
I dont' really support the way some are going about it. The football game between israel women and scotland is having to be played behind closed doors due to security threats. As if the womens team in Israel are making the decisions.

Crowcifiction

May 22, 2024 18:15

Beyonce would argue that point.

Grumman

May 22, 2024 19:55

If people in Gaza are dying needlessly, it’s because of their own government. Yet I don’t see any of these coddled Ivy League morons protesting against the inhumanity of Hamas. Interesting to note just how many people have been so fücking clueless about the grim reality of war up to this point.

hugs4you

May 22, 2024 23:35

USA does have freedom of speech but it was very inappropriate

Thrones

May 23, 2024 08:22

I don't think they are defending Hamas or their actions are they? Its possible surely to support neither group who seem intent if having a war and killing innocent people. Its pretty clear from the UN reports that the people from Gaza are going through a terrible time, infact they have went through a pretty horrendous time for decades. Sadly some have probably some there have ended up being radicalised because of it. Theres 2 things that really need to happen there, stop oppressing and killing them and get rid of the extremist gangsters that seem to be taking control of it. The UN should really be looking at getting in a peace keeping mission here because its a complex historical situation. Hamas needs to be ousted but patalsinians need to stop being massacred and get stability, a decent way of life and some hope. At the moment its all grim.

Campaigning for stopping deaths is a pretty good cause tbh I dont really get why people are annoyed by it and the attachment to it of "wokeness" "liberals" and "ivy leagues" and for some reason "LGBTQAI+" is just bizarre. None of the people I know here that are vocal on this cause are anything like that, it has support worldwide from people from every background imaginable

Thrones

May 23, 2024 08:37

On the UN peavekeeping mission its complicated by Iran, Russia and to an extent China. To have a western peace keeping group there(which is probably the best option of a bad bunch) would be vetoed by Russia and China. Whereas Iran who are funding this proxy war will not want western troops in the area. Theres loads of bad actors around this here which complicates things. Israels normalising of relations with other middle eastern countries like Saudi has been a defining point in all this. Its caused more tension between Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iran stepped up its funding of groups like Hamas and others in places like Yemen and Lebanon. The Palastinians are just a pawn being used in a greater strategic battle.

It’s the Iranians that fund Hamas them and supply weapons. The USA left weapons for Afghans when they left who in turn sold them to Iran. Now they are in Gaza. Its a mess of worldwide proportions as far back as the creation of Israel and argued further. All bad, no one comes out well.

Grumman

May 23, 2024 14:40

If you don’t understand the attachment to wokeism, it’s because you don’t live in the US and/or aren’t listening to what these people are saying. Frankly, and with all due respect because I know you generally have a reasonable approach to these kinds of topics, I think your assessment is overly naive. The protests began even before Israel retaliated. If they were ever simply about “Free Palestine,” which is an entirely problematic idea in itself and I don’t think they were ever really about only that, they have since morphed into explicit support for Hamas. Telling Jews to go back to Poland, chanting about “Hamas, we love you” and “globalize the Intifada,” and openly displaying hatred of Jews on these campuses by harassing them and barring them from entry to buildings and places they need to go is not honorable, it’s not standing up for what’s right, it is simply idiotic, uninformed playacting.

Who is massacring who here? Hamas has killed their own people who have attempted to evacuate. They have used their own people as human shields, preventing them from sheltering in the 400 miles of tunnels they built with the billions of dollars in aid they have received since they took power 17 years ago. Oppression? Israel AND Egypt have placed an embargo on Hamas, if that’s what you mean, but that is clearly a response to constant rocket attacks and the knowledge that Hamas is committed to genocide against Israel. It is Hamas who suppresses whatever dissent exists in Gaza by torturing and murdering its own people, which is exactly what it did on October 7 to the Jews it kidnapped. Israel has gone out of its way to warn the Gazan population before it bombs an area, through phone calls, texts, leaflets, etc. What are they supposed to do when attacked by a regime that has declared jihad on them, not strike back? These jihadists do not care about their own people’s lives, they think anyone who dies is going to paradise anyway. And they don’t fear death, they embrace martyrdom. People in the West who don’t think beliefs have consequences in the real world need to wake up.

This is not about oppressor vs. oppressed, colonizer vs. colonized, or white (the Jews, apparently) vs. black and brown (the Palestinians). But that’s the framing these campus liberals are in fact using to parse this conflict. It is an infantile level of understanding that is not in contact with reality.

Thrones

May 23, 2024 15:25

Well I can only speak from what I have seen over here and there is some of the stuff you describe but theres more to it than that. Over here we have been talking about the whole Israel situation since as far as I can remember, theres been campaigns, marches its been on the news for decades so none of it is new albeit its exploded more recently given whats going on. I think we need to be careful not to play the man rather than the ball on these issues. And what I mean by that is just because theres a group of people some don't like that doesn't mean than the point they are making is incorrect or within that group there arn't good informed people who don't support terrorist groups. For example over here some Celtic fans started singing about Hamas while people criticised Celtic fans it turns out it was a small vocally minority that have these views and the vast majority of celtic fans are pretty sensible on the subject when you talk to them. In addition people flying the Paletinian flag arn't automatically supporters of Hamas and on the flip side anyone who is criticising the way Israel is conducting themselves isn't anti Jewish. One of my best mates is over there and had to flee the country when the whole thing kicked off. He's back again now but even before this all kicked off properly he was getting shrapnel on his balcony from the missles Hamas were firing. I don't like them, but I also think mass killing and creating a humanatiarian crisis to try and get rid of them is wrong. And if young people want to make that point I am all for it.

Thrones

May 23, 2024 15:36

* I dont like Hamas that is

Thrones

May 23, 2024 15:38

We also need to deal with the ways Hamas are being funded and armed....so a period of self reflection from the west would be helpful.

HeartbreakBeat

May 24, 2024 01:44

Woke in and of itself has nothing to do with protests, hate, bigotry, and/or liberalism. Woke is being aware of societal wrongs and there is nothing political about it. Ignorant Trumpers made it political and totally warped the true interpretation of being "woke." There are "woke" people from all spectrums of society, however, Trumpers don't like to admit this.

I didn't necessarily have a problem with the flag being displayed at my daughter's graduation. I just think it was very ineffective for the person that did it.

Grumman

May 24, 2024 02:02

Yes, there is room for nuance here, albeit it’s nowhere to be found in the protest movement. The nuance is that the protesters account for a minority of the students on these campuses, they’re just obnoxious and extremely vocal. Similarly, one can criticize some of Israel’s policies without being antisemitic. That is not what’s happening here. There is a fundamental lack of understanding of what is at stake for Israel, who they’re fighting, and why it’s absolutely crucial not only for them but for whatever part of the Palestinian population that doesn’t support them that they destroy Hamas. Israel is not committing genocide, it is not targeting civilians intentionally, and it is not conducting “mass killing” as a means of getting rid of the problem. It is prosecuting a war against a cowardly enemy that hides behind its civilian population. Again, the fact that war is hell is not news, but this absurd double standard applied to Israel when they’re pursuing legitimate war aims reeks of anti-Zionism, antisemitism, and woke nonsense. If you acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist, then it follows that you acknowledge they have a right to defend themselves against an existential threat.

Neon Bright Star ⭐

May 24, 2024 03:14

Thrones and Gru please get along. I like both of you lol

Thrones

May 24, 2024 06:35

Just a healthy discussion Neon no ones falling out.

I agree with Israels right to defend itself but theres also a way to do it and the consequences of doing it. We had a similar situation in the UK not that long ago(well in my lifetime at least) where the IRA started to conduct a bombing campaign in Northern Ireland and on the UK mainland. You had the birmingham bomb you even had a near miss on the prime minister magaret thatcher at the time amonst others. In a similar way many republican communities were under the control of the IRA who were/are a terrorist organisation and effectivly gangsters and many people in those communities had been radicalised into suppporting terrorism(or freedom fighters depending on your outlook). If the UK government at that point had went in and starting wiping out whole communities in the name of self defence there would not be the same support of the UK governments actions in the same way the Israelis are being defended at times. Infact the countries defending Israel here would probably intervene. The Ireland thing has calmed down allot from them and was only done via allot of peace talks, truth and reconcilliation and democratoc solution. And although its not perfect and they are starting to get rod of the drug dealers and criminals who (after giving up the armed conflict) are still trying to run those communities.

Thrones

May 24, 2024 07:11

Also when the brits did intervene during the conflict and make mistakes and people were killed it just radicalised more people so it was counterproductive. This is all great propaganda for Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah the toutis(or however you spell it).

WalterLuigi

May 24, 2024 13:42

Wow this got deep. Not super surprised though.

Mr Beelzeebubbles

May 24, 2024 13:46

Increased prosperity in Ireland (North and Republic) certainly helped, too. It's much easier to die for a cause if you've got nothing to live for, but if you've got a decent job, a nice flat near the Med, a cute girlfriend... All the smashing off Gaza has done is shoved more Palestinians into the arms of fundamentalist fückbags like Hamas.

Thrones

May 24, 2024 14:31

I agree


The rebalance on the rights of catholics in Northern ireland helped. There were stories about them being blocked from social housing and denied jobs based on religion. The civil rights movement there for catholics had valid points but it was seen as a front to a united ireland campaign )which it could he argued it was) so the unionists on the otherside fought against.

Thrones

May 24, 2024 14:34

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-69055989

Looks like the UNs International Court of Justice has ruled Israel must halt its millitary offensive in Gaza citing an immediate risk to the Palestinian people

Grumman

May 24, 2024 16:34

I don’t think the analogy to Northern Ireland holds up here. This is an unprecedented situation. It is not a nationalist struggle for independence, it’s a war of annihilation. “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” means that Israel will not exist, if the aims of the jihadists are allowed to prevail. Israel MUST destroy Hamas to survive. The Hamas leadership has said it plans to do this again and again and again, not until they have a free country of their own, but until every last Jew in the world is dead. This is what they have been teaching their children in their schools for years.

You allude to some better way that Israel can fight a war of this kind. I don’t see that as plausible considering, again, the unprecedented nature of fighting an enemy who hides in a labyrinth of tunnels purposely built beneath civilian buildings. When civilians die in this war, Hamas knows the effect this has on casual observers in the West. They know that soft hearted people who haven’t thought much about what’s happening here will protest in the streets and put pressure on Israel to stop. Many of those people are misguided useful idiots on college campuses, others just hate the Jews anyway. Meanwhile, Israel is also aware of the effects of killing innocent civilians even unintentionally and despite exhaustive efforts not to, so they do everything they can within the capabilities of modern warfare to avoid it. Not only do they NOT want to kill civilians on purpose, they investigate and prosecute abuses by their own soldiers when it happens maliciously. Does Hamas do any of this? Do they care about the Palestinian people? Or are they actively trying to get more of them killed for their twisted vision of a Jewless world?

Hamas and the people who actively believe in and support its mission are the enemies of civilization. There is absolutely no arguing that. Israel is the protector of civilization and liberal values in a region full of Islamic authoritarianism.

Mr Beelzeebubbles

May 24, 2024 16:44

Collective punishment is immoral. 50% of Jewish Israelis oppose the supply of emergency food into Gaza. There are no good guys in this conflict, but there are 15,000 dead Palestinian children that cannot just be swept under the carpet. And the way the war has been prosecuted has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with Netanyahu's increasingly desperate attempts to cling onto power and avoid prosecution on corruption charges.

Thrones

May 24, 2024 16:53

It is comparable because in the case of northern ireland it was a struggle that mixed both religion and nationalism. I have literally been in irish social clubs in scotland where they have sang irish folk songs about having "no protestants left", songs decrying the platations of ireland and wiping Britain from the map so there is similarities in ideology. It was also an armed conflict based on terrorist acts,hit and run tactics and going underground and using human rights campaigns/freedom fighter narratives to make them appeal more to outsiders.

Hamas do have a pretty good grasp of surviving and no doubt use civilians as shields. But given they are armed by western guns, funded by iranian funds and the people there seem to be getting slaughtered by both sides then something really needs to be done to help them rather than a tactic of complete obliteration which is what is happening. Guerilla war in cities isn't new either. Campaigning by people making that point are correct to do so imo.

Thrones

May 24, 2024 16:58

*help the people there not hamas obviously

Thrones

May 24, 2024 18:11

Anyway I dont think we are going to agree Gru albeit we have common ground.

Slightly on but off topic you should tune into the scottish cup final tommorow. Our season closer in the soccer calender in Scotland. On the one side you will have 25,000 rangers fans singing songs about being up to their knees in fenian blood, pro protestant/anti catholic songs, battles over hundreds of years and god save the king. They will be the ones flying union jacks, red hands of ulster and.......pro Israeli flags

On the other side will be the fans of celtic singing pro irish independence, pro ira, and some anti protestant songs. They will be the ones flying Ireland flags and.........Palestinian flags.

Funny wee world we live in if it wasn't so tragic

Grumman

May 24, 2024 21:18

The difference is that there aren’t Catholic and Protestant suicide bombers committed to killing as many people from the opposing side as possible for their god. There is no comparison between the scale of Christian and Jewish violence and the violence committed in the name of Islam at this point in history. Christians and Jews have long since collectively decided to de-emphasize the violence inherent in Abrahamic religion, Muslims collectively have not. Islam is a different problem because of that fact. Beliefs matter, and polling consistently shows how many Muslims support killing people for apostasy, suppressing human rights based on Sharia, and support the domination of the world by Islam. They show how committed they are to these aims all over the globe on a daily basis. Christianity and Judaism are terrible as well, but their adherents by and large have figured out how to operate in modern, liberal, pluralistic societies. Islamic countries are not places anyone who values their freedom and autonomy wants to be. Obviously it would be great for the entire world if Muslims collectively decided to shun Islamists and jihadists and reform their religion to conform with modernity, but unless and until they do that, any comparisons to wars of national liberation or Christian sectarianism in a modern European context just won’t run through. At least not to me. I’ve exhausted pretty much everything I can say on this topic. Thanks for keeping it civil.

Neon Bright Star ⭐

May 25, 2024 00:27

On that note, I find the Islam simping that intersectional feminists do to be off putting and hilariously hypocritical. Like they complain about how Christians treat women and just whole sale ignore the fact that Muslim groups won't even let women drive or own property, or show their face, or go to school....

Darkhorse1215

May 26, 2024 06:50

Average Baadher Vaginehoff Gang member(neo-feminist) "Ew, this guy at the gym barely glanced at me...RAPE CULTURE!!"

Also average neo-feminist: somehow supports Hamas...

WalterLuigi

May 27, 2024 17:06

Also average neo-fem: s*xism isn't okay.

Also also average neo-fem: Men are the devil and can't be victims, only aggressors. Just look at the stats. No no, not those stats. Only the ones that agree with me.